Sleep Training 101

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Prefer to read? here is the transcript of the episode: Sleep Training 101

This episode is very close to my heart. In Sleep training 101, i have got the opportunity to bring the magic and science of sleep training to all my viewers. When we become parents, its expected of us not to get a full night sleep for the initial years of our childs lives. What if i tell you that is not always the case. Sometimes all you need is a step on the right path to lead you and your baby to nights of sound sleep 

INTRODUCTION 

 

Rinie (00:00)

Hello, our modern Indian parents. A very warm welcome to our third episode. I am Rinie. I'm a certified pediatric sleep consultant. And I have Sanchita here with me who's a certified pediatric nutrition consultant. And the topic for today is something very interesting, which I'm sure you're dying to know about. It is sleep training, I have worked with over 300 families who sleep train their babies. You know, I have sleep trained my own child.

 

And with so much experience that I have under my belt, I am dying to share with you what sleep training is all about. You know, I'm really going to break it down to the basics, address some of the questions that you have about what's the best age to start sleep training, what's the best method, and definitely address the fears that you have around sleep training. But let me tell you, this episode will make a lot more sense if you go back and listen to our second episode, which is explaining the root causes of why...

 

Children are waking up every one to two hours at night. And when you listen to that episode and you come back here, the whole picture will just make much more sense to you, But you know what? Before we get into this rather serious topic, we have to talk about this weekend. At the time of recording this episode, the weekend before was Sanchita's birthday. And I want to know all about it. Sanchita, how was it? What did you get up to, girl?

 

Sanchita  (01:17)

Yeah, so first of all, welcome to everyone. Thank you for joining us again. And honestly, it was great. I turned 35. I know a lot of people don't like to say their age, but I'm very like, you know what? I've had a great life. I want to celebrate it. And, I've been in Hong Kong for about eight years now. So it was just really special to be like, after these eight years, you know, I'm actually from the Caribbean. So, you know, moving here making new friends and just getting used to the environment.

 

It was so nice to just have so many people celebrate with me and it was a lot of fun. You know, so I'm sure a lot of expats can relate to that, you know, trying to find that good set of friends.

 

And yeah, have a great night out, great day out. It was really fun. And I saw as well for you, you were out as well on the weekend.

 

Rinie (02:01)

yeah, actually we had a cocktails night at home. So just like you, because I'm an expat mom as well. And I've been in Singapore for 15 years now. It's so important to nurture that family away from home where your friends end up becoming your family and especially your girlfriends and getting that quality time with them. You know, when you're all 

 

IMPACT OF SLEEP TRAINING ON PARENTS 

 

Rinie:

just sitting around cocktails in hand, talking about life, everything under the sun. That's it.

 

basically what we did this weekend. It was a blessed weekend. Like I absolutely loved that time with my girlfriends. But one of the most important things that I, that we fail to share is the thing that makes it possible for you and I to be able to spend that quality time with our friends, our girlfriends, to nurture this relationship is our kids sleep well.

 

because if our kids were not sleeping well, we would neither have the time nor the energy to be able to invest in these relationships and build them and build that family and close circle of friends around us. how do you feel like tell us more about your experience with building these relationships in a foreign country?

 

Sanchita Daswani (03:09)

Yeah.

 

And I think, we're so busy in the day also with work and our routine and our kids. It's like, okay, once the kids are asleep at night, we just feel a bit more at ease. You know, we feel like, okay, we can go out and enjoy and just, not have to think so much because we know, okay, they're going to wake up the next day. And then, you know, we handle it the next day. And, for me also,

 

I've done sleep training, you've done sleep training. So I think we both have different experiences, but I think our goal was the same, to kind of make sure that for our kids to sleep well, but also for us to have some time to ourselves because we really, really crave that as parents, just have alone time with our husbands, with our friends, you know, with our family as well.

 

Rinie (03:52)

That is super important. I think if I speak as a modern Indian parent, there is so much more to our lives than just parenting. And I'm very proud of that, you know? And I am very happy that we are able to retain other elements and aspects of our life, even after we become parents, It's not that we're dedicating every minute of every day to just being parents, but we are nurturing.

 

relationship with our partners, with our friends, our work. And I think sleep has something that has really changed the way we are able to perform in other areas of life as well. Because if you're not getting good enough sleep, you're constantly tired. You're not going to be able to do the thing that you want to do.

 

And I think a big group of people who are suffering with sleep issues are new parents, It's not that they don't want to sleep. They want to sleep. They really, really want to sleep. But they are not able to because their kid is waking up every hour, every two hours. And if they are doing that, they are waking up and then they are feeding them, rocking them, putting on the pacifier, bringing them into bed, doing all of those things, naturally their sleep is going to be disrupted.

 

And then it affects all the other things that we have been talking about, their energy, their mood, the way they show up for their partners or getting into, you know, making friendships and spending time with other people as well.

 

RINIES EXPERIENCE WITH SLEEP CONSULTING AND TRAINING 

 

Sanchita Daswani (05:15)

Yeah, 100%. And you know, for me, I really want to know because you know, when you're in school and you're growing up, you're like, I want to be a doctor. I want to be a vet. Now, I don't think many people say, I want to grow up to be a pediatric sleep consultant. So please tell us a little bit about how you've gotten to where you are today. And you're able to help so many families with this.

 

Rinie (05:37)

Thank you for asking that. So yes, you're right. I think I was definitely one of those people who was like, I want to grow up to be a doctor. And then, I put all my energy towards that. But in the end, I realized that, no, I actually like the profession of teaching a lot more. So then I got into teaching and I taught, high school for six years. And then finally, I had a baby. And it really kicked my butt. I think there's no better way to put this. The sleepless nights were just like...

 

I didn't realize just how much I loved sleeping until I wasn't getting to sleep anymore. And I was like, okay, this is not sustainable for me. By five and a half months, I had reached my breaking point. I have a lot of respect for parents who are able to endure sleepless nights for months or years even. For me, at five and a half months, I was like, I'm done. You know, I cannot survive anymore. I'm practically a momby, which is a mom zombie. Like, I was zoned out throughout the day. I was taking so many naps.

 

my it's like the energy levels were horrible. I think everything was just out of whack and I was like this is not the mom that I know I want to be and this is not the mom that I know I can be while I'm existing in this state of sleep deprivation. So when I started searching for solutions for my baby's sleep so that I can get more sleep and she can get more sleep I came across

 

pediatric sleep consultants. So a friend of mine who had twins who sleep trained her babies, she told me about it and she said how her life totally changed and I was like, I need that. I really need that in my life. So then I went and contacted this same sleep consultant and she introduced me to sleep training and I was just amazed by how much this woman helped me. And I was just, I just felt so indebted to the point that, you know, I was like, you're a magician.

 

You know, you changed my life because whatever you did was like magic. And when I was done with it, I was like, I need to share this. I need to get more people to experience this transformation because it is life changing. It's a parenting game changer, Sleep training and how the way it allowed my baby to start sleeping for like nine or 10 hour stretches. I was getting full night's sleep and it was just, it just transformed everything for me.

 

So that was how I got into this space, And I'm still like just as passionate about it as I was like two years ago when I started, because every family, I work with and when I finally get that one message like, my baby slept through the night. The joy I feel is the same as what I felt when my baby slept through the night for the first time. And I'm like, yes, yes, you know?

 

Sanchita Daswani (08:16)

Totally, yeah.

 

Rinie (08:20)

So that's how I got in. But if you tell me, if you ask me like in terms of how sleep training worked out for us, honestly, it was scary. It was very scary because we sleep trained at six months of age because like I said, I couldn't take it on any longer. It's not like I would have endured it for a few months and try to see where it goes. But despite that, like I just felt like, my gosh, she's so tiny. Is she even capable of it?

 

And but the consultant was very helpful in, addressing all my concerns and being a really rock solid support for us. And the first night was. I don't know if there's a word for it, but hard doesn't justify it. I'm not going to call it was hard. It was very, very hard. The first night was just like it was we were just constantly flooded with questions like, what are we doing?

 

Is this the right way? Blah, blah, blah. But every single night, as we saw her sleeping for longer and longer stretches and waking up less and less often, we were like, yeah, we are on the right path. This is going somewhere and it's going to benefit her and benefit us. And it's been two years since then, she's still sleeping through the night. We are still sleeping through the night. It's just so good for the entire family. So this was my journey with sleep training, which is why I'm such a believer in sleep training.

 

Sanchita Daswani (09:33)

Wow, amazing.

 

SANCHITAS EXPERIENCE WITH SLEEP TRAINING 

 

Rinie (09:40)

How about you Sanchita? I know you sleep train your twins as well and you've got twins. That's no easy thing. So you have to tell us how I sleep for you.

 

Sanchita Daswani (09:43)

Yeah. Yeah. my God. And you know, it was, yeah. You know, it was interesting because my kids were born premature. So they were actually in the hospital for a month. So because they were in the hospital for a month, the nurses kind of put them on a routine in terms of their feeding and all of that. Like they weren't just rushing to them all the time. And then, so when they came out, there was this one book.

 

Rinie (10:05)

Yeah.

 

Sanchita Daswani (10:09)

by Gina Ford that I followed. So she has a twin one and then she has a like for, you know, one child. So I followed her sleep schedule. And I think because my kids were kind of on a rhythm already, even though in the beginning, as you spoke about in the last episode, you really go with the flow, they were kind of forced to be on a schedule. So it was working out okay. And I kind of just followed her timings and making sure they get calories in the day. And at six months, they were sleeping through the night, like a good eight hours. So I was like, this is chill.

And honestly, I think from eight months to like a year and a half, it was all a blur because I do know they were waking up, but like we would go in and just pat them and put them back and it was okay. And like, we were like, it's a growth spurt or we kept using excuses. So we just kind of, we were tired, but we were just like, this is what it has to be. we're like, as long as they're not up every single hour But when they were a year and a half and I went back home to Curacao, I remember to just get them to fall asleep.

 

we had to hold them for an hour and be like, please sleep, And it was exhausting because I'm like, I want to go for dinner. Like I want to make it out or even for the nanny. Like she was like exhausted and there's two kids, right? So we always had to be around. And I was like, I can't do this anymore. And that's when I consulted with a sleep consultant in Australia. And she was very like, no, you need to start now. And the first day was,

It's not cry it out. It's like you're in the room and then you're just kind of like so they feel your presence, but they they're so crying that you are not aiding them. And the first day my husband went and he came out after 30 minutes. He's like shaking. He's like, I can't do this. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to go do it. And I just went. And the first few days were tough. Same like you. But after that, it just got better. And honestly, even now, my kids sleep, through the night. And it's been.

 

quite amazing like to go to sleep like we so kind of are nearby we might just sit in the room just till they fall asleep which I know I need to stop now but as a parent you do your best but I feel like at least once they're asleep they're good you know so I feel like it's just been a game changer it is really life -changing and it was tough when we did it because there was so many noises and people saying things but it was definitely worth it.

 

Rinie (12:08)

Yeah.

 

Yeah, I mean, and both of us have had such different experiences with sleep training. You know, I did it when my baby was a baby. She was only six months old. You had 18 month old toddlers, two of them. So, I'm sure that both of us together can bring in a lot of different perspectives to what sleep training is, what it can be.

 

WHAT IS SLEEP TRAINING 

 

Sanchita Daswani (12:31)

Yeah.

 

Yeah, so both of us have had these experiences. So I'm sure a lot of the parents just think they are kind of thinking about it or, they're a little confused. So let's get back to the basics. Can you just explain to us, first of all, what is sleep training and does it really help a child sleep better?

 

Rinie (12:58)

sleep training is something that is very often misunderstood. So let me break it down to you what sleep training really is. So if you go back to the last episode, what we spoke about is one of the big reasons why babies have a lot of night wakings is because they are dependent on the parents to fall asleep in whatever way, whether it's nursing or it's rocking or it's patting or it's co -sleeping or it's being in a swing. But any...

 

time that they're falling asleep, there is a caregiver or a parent who is directly involved in the process of falling asleep. Now because babies sleep in sleep cycles, often they have trouble connecting those sleep cycles unless the parent comes back and intervenes, whether it's offering back the breast, the bottle, rocking them, patting them, whatever it is, and because of this, these night -wakeings keep on happening.

 

But what if we could teach our baby to fall asleep on their own, Which could look like you lay your baby down, you've done the bedtime routine, she's very relaxed. You lay your baby down, you leave the room, and then they roll around, they babble a little bit, they fuss a little bit, but then they just go to sleep on their own.

 

And when a baby is able to do that, can you think of what happens through the night? Anytime they have a waking between a sleep cycle, which is normal for all of us, you wake up at night, I wake up at night between sleep cycles, babies do the same, but sleep trained babies, they're able to go back into sleep on their own without needing parental intervention, without needing you to come back and rock them and feed them and pat them and pick them up and all of those things. And this is exactly what allows a sleep.

 

trained baby to sleep through the night. I put this in air quotes because they are still waking because that is physiological, but what they are able to do is put themselves back to sleep. And that is what sleep training is. It's the process of teaching your baby to fall asleep on their own. And there are various methods and techniques to go about it. But the essence is that you're giving your baby the room.

 

to do this and learn this on their own.

 

Sanchita Daswani (14:57)

I think it's a life skill. It's something that we're teaching our kids that you know what, you can do it yourself. And I love the way you explained it because it makes us feel a bit lighter. Because when you say sleep training, it makes us feel very nervous. It makes us feel very anxious. And people look at you like what are you doing to your child? So I love how you explained it because it's...

 

It's like how we eating, walking, crawling. You're teaching your child a life skill on how to fall back to sleep, which we also have learned, which unfortunately a lot of us struggle with still going to sleep, waking up at night, not being able to go back to sleep. So it's really beautiful that we can actually give our kids these tools from an early age. So when we talk about age,

 

WHAT IS THE RIGHT AGE TO SLEEP TRAIN YOUR BABY 

 

Sanchita Daswani (15:46)

 So when we talk about age,

Because I think this is a, that's why I was also confused. I'm like, okay, no, my kids are doing okay. Should I wait? Is there an actual time? Because even when my clients come to me and they're starting solids, they're like, okay, should we start solids and sleep train at the same time? Or when is the best time? You know, we've spoken about this as well. When is the best time?

 

Rinie (16:04)

Yeah. For sleep training. Okay. I think to anybody who's listening here, you already know that there are two moms sitting right here who have sleep trained at vastly different ages, a year apart, six months versus 18 months. So I think that itself gives you a clue that there is no best age for sleep training. Anytime you feel that whatever sleep setup you are in,

 

Sanchita Daswani (16:07)

Yeah.

Rinie (16:31)

it is not sustainable for you anymore. You need to make a change to it. You can sleep train your child at that age. If you ask me from a data standpoint, worldwide, what's the most common age for sleep training? It is between five to seven months. But I think that data It's primarily coming from Western countries like the US where.

 

children are sleep trained at an early age, like parents are just waiting for their babies to turn four or five months old and they just want us to go like, okay, now we're going to do sleep training, Whereas in Indian families, it is a process, Where we are coming to terms with the fact what sleep training is, understanding what our needs are, what our sleep goals are. So I would say there is no right age because I work with families in which babies are as young as five months old, all the way to four years of age.

 

Even a 4 year old can be sleep trained, but the methods would just differ vastly. The way you teach a child really depends on where they are at cognitively, emotionally, verbally, and then you modify your method based on that. So if you ask me if there is a right age to sleep train? No, it's about when you are ready for it.

 

Sanchita Daswani (17:43)

Because the thing is like for example people come to me and say okay when can we start solids and I and we spoke about this in the first episode that it is around six months right because that's when the body is physically ready and all of that so you're saying that there is like if there's a parent who's you know a mom who's pregnant and she's like I do want to do this so you're just saying like There's no real exact time whenever they feel they're ready for it

 

Rinie (17:52)

Yeah.

 

Absolutely. Think about your case, Sanchita. Your babies were sleeping through the night at six months. You never felt the need to sleep train because they were sleeping so well. And I always say, don't mend what's not broken. If your children are sleeping well, then you don't have to technically sleep train because, yeah, they are sleeping well, But then there are a lot of change of events where it could be due to teething, it could be traveling, it could be regressions, or just...

 

basically biological developments that are happening that do end up wrecking sleep at one point or the other. And a lot of parents will then come to me that my child was sleeping well until XYZ age and now they are not and it's been this way for a few months. Can we sleep train now? I'm like, yes. And they will also ask me, do you think this will resolve on its own? I'm like, maybe, but I can't give you a definite answer that in the next six months it's going to be okay.

 

Sanchita Daswani (18:57)

I like that approach because it's not so strict. I think it's really, and I think we've learned as parents about listening to our kids, listening to our gut feeling, what is right for our child, And for us. So, okay.

WHAT IS THE BEST SLEEP TRAINING METHOD

 

Sanchita Daswani

 I want to ask you this because what is the best method? Because honestly, when you say sleep training, you think cry it out. And I, I didn't do a cry it out method fully, but there was crying, you know, like she's like, okay, you don't leave the room, but you're still in there.

 

and they feel you, they can smell you, but they have to cry it out. But is cry it out the only method? I think this is the biggest challenge for most people. They don't wanna do it because they're like, it's not for me. I don't want my child to cry.

 

Rinie (19:35)

I think that is, that is a very common misconception that they think that all sleep training is cry it out. I think what people need to know is that there is a spectrum of sleep training techniques that range from, if I talk about where you are providing the least amount of support, which is cry it out, which is what we call the extinction method, where you lay your baby down, you leave the room, and then you don't go back in at all.

 

This is very popularly practiced and recommended in the States. The families that I work with who are living in the States, a lot of the times the pediatricians are recommending this method to them because it's very clear cut. It is proven to be that it works, but most parents are not okay with it. And then the other spectrum is where you are providing so much support and it's a very, very, very gentle method, which is what sometimes you will hear that is a pick up or down method,

 

And pick up, put down method is nice because you're giving small opportunities to give your child the space to fall asleep on their own, but it doesn't work for older babies. It works for younger babies, like newborns under the age of four months. So then we are coming in the middle where we have

 

that Ferber approach or where you're coming in, checking in, reassuring your child, leaving, or you are sitting next to them and gradually withdrawing your presence. So these are the two methods that kind of fall in the middle, which normally are the methods that I would recommend. So, yes, these are the these are the range of methods. Now, do they involve crying? 100 percent. so sleep training.

 

No matter what level of support you choose to give your child, it is going to involve tears. And that is something which we need to really understand is that it's not a bad thing. Tears are your child's way of expressing that they don't like something. But you are setting in a boundary here. And it's OK for you to set a boundary. And it's also OK for your child to not like that boundary.

 

Sanchita Daswani (21:17)

Yeah.

 

Rinie (21:32)

and they will express their frustration but you don't need to leave them alone while they're expressing it. You can still co -regulate with them. You can still be around them. You can let them know that everything is okay. Mummy is right here. Papa is right here. But side by side, still let them learn this skill of being able to fall asleep on their own. So don't be afraid of the tears.

 

IS IT SAFE FOR BABIES TO CRY DURING SLEEP TRAINING 

 

Sanchita Daswani (21:51)

Yeah.

 

I think what you said was so important that, there will be change when there is change, there will be resistance to it. So.

 

there will be a bit of a battle and that's the way they express themselves by crying. And it's okay for our kids to cry a little bit.

 

I remember when my kids, when I was doing this, like I really had to put a sign outside my door saying, do not enter because I know my in -laws and my brother -in -law and the helpers and the nanny, they were all like, no, no, no, we can't. Like, this is not safe. Like, no, no, no, we are barging in. They wanted to just barge in and they're like, what are you doing to your child? It's not okay. I got a lot of hate for it.

 

And a lot of people also say, you're scarring your child, right? Like they will have relationship issues later. They will have they will not feel attached to you as a mother because you abandoned them and all of that. So is it safe? Is it OK? Why is it so controversial?

 

Rinie (22:49)

what you're describing right now is something very similar to what I experienced. My mom was in Singapore at that time, you know, when we sleep trained my daughter. And I knew that I wanted to sleep train, but I also knew that my mom is going to be against it. it's such a new thing for her. And it's not that grandparents are against crying.

 

Because at least when they were parents, they didn't mind it when we were crying, right? They were so particular about disciplining us and they didn't care. But like when it comes to grandchildren, they turn into puddles. They're like, no, you can't, you know. So, I sent her to my cousin's place for a three night sleepover. I said, I need you out of here for three nights because I know three nights my consultant has told me the first three nights are the hardest.

 

Sanchita Daswani (23:16)

True, true.

Rinie (23:35)

It does get a lot better after that. So you can come back in by the fourth night and even on the fourth night, because it was still a little bit of crying, right? I asked her to stay in the room with like noise canceling earphones and like watch something just to keep her distracted. And she was against it, no doubt. But once she started seeing that my daughter, who was waking up every hour to two hours for a bottle, bottle, bottle pacifier bottle is now going to bed at seven thirty.

 

waking up at 4 .30 or 5 taking a bottle and going back to sleep till 7 her mind was blown. So it's one of those things is like with grandparents is that they need to see it working for them to believe in it. So that's one thing. But if you ask me like. They must be amazed by it. What. What.

 

Sanchita Daswani (24:19)

Yep, happened, yeah.

 

Yeah, like in the beginning they were like, no way, no way. But they also used to hear when the babies were crying at night, So they also were like exhausted by hearing the cries because they would wake up and suddenly they're like, wait, they slept the whole night? And so I think with them, it's always you have to kind of just do it and then they'll realize later because it's so new for them, They're not used to all of these new things that we are experiencing as modern Indian parents.

DOES SLEEP TRAINING DAMAGE ATTACHMENT 

 

Rinie (24:44)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

 

I think that is the that's the thing like if you ask me is it safe because that is what the grandparents are going to be asking that's what anybody like I think this is also something that people are constantly talking about on Instagram as well social media in general like it's going to damage the bond it's going to traumatize your baby whatever it is I think what people don't understand is that attachment is not as fragile as they think it would be. Sleep training does cause a short -term

 

Sanchita Daswani (24:54)

Yeah. Yes.

 

Rinie (25:13)

Like I wouldn't call it a break but it's kind of like a bit of a mismatch between what your child wants versus what kind of comfort you're providing but it's a very short -term mismatch, And I was listening to a podcast, the mom room podcast and Dr. Tanya Kotler was on it and she mentioned this that she said that this mismatch between you know what your child wants and what you're providing is so short -term and it's very easy to repair.

 

after that because you are still having loving interactions with them throughout the day. And so it's not that it's going to cause any kind of long term break of attachment or break of trust. So that's one thing that people need to know that is very short term. Now, if you ask me from a data standpoint, there have been studies done and one study that was done that was done over a period of five years, they tracked babies who were sleep trained.

 

Sanchita Daswani (25:50)

Right.

 

Rinie (26:07)

and who were not sleep trained. And then they tracked their emotional wellbeing, they tracked the parent -child attachment. And what they found out is that sleep training had no impact on it. Zero impact. And that gives me a lot of solace that I know that it's not even just been studied, you know, but it's something that also I've experienced that I sleep trained my baby two years ago. And the attachment that we have is like, we are very close to each other.

 

And so tell me about your like, you sleep trained your twins four years ago. How has your attachment and your relationship been with them since then?

 

Sanchita Daswani (26:38)

Yeah. Yeah.

 

I don't see a difference. Do you know what I mean? Like it's totally fine. And I think when we take that time out as parents, like before bedtime to read that book with them or spend that or any time in the day with them, it doesn't matter. And you know, and I, and I think for, for kids sleep is very important, right? I think.

 

us doing this is setting them up for success and setting them up to grow for their health as well. And I love that you talk about the boundary because I know Dr. Becky as well on Instagram, who I love, I follow her. You know, she talks about as parents, now we're all into gentle parenting, but it's also about understanding that as parents, we have that responsibility to set boundaries with our kids because we know what they need and to not always give in.

 

And even with mealtimes, I tell my clients, you know, okay, they don't want to eat this, but you need to set a boundary, give them two, three options, no problem, but they're not going to get anything else after that. So even with mealtimes, I work on boundaries, And I think that that's super important. 

Sanchita Daswani

But, you know, what do you do if like the mom is okay with it and the dad is not or like,

how do you handle that kind of situation?

 

Rinie (27:50)

That is such a common situation, I tell you, especially in Indian families. And I'll share with you a very sad reality. So for the past two years, I do discovery calls. I'm talking to moms. I just want to know what's happening so that we can assess whether or not I'm in the right position to help them. And over the past two years, I think I have done close to 2 ,000 discovery calls.

 

Sanchita Daswani (27:54)

Yeah.

 

Rinie (28:12)

I've spoken to 2000 mums in the last two years, And the problem here is that it's typically the mums who are losing sleep. And in a lot of the families, the dads are not involved.

 

Sanchita Daswani (28:14)

Right.

 

Rinie (28:27)

with the nights so they are not lose sleep. So I have seen a pattern where if the dads are involved as well and they have had first -hand experience with the sleepless nights, with the night wakings, with the endless rocking and the feeding and all of that, they are on board. They are like, you know, we need sleep because they do value and prize their own sleep as well.

 

And suddenly it just becomes that, if there's a solution out there that will allow me, my wife, my child, everybody to sleep, everybody's on board. The mum and dad are both on board if they have both experienced those sleepless nights. Whereas the reverse is if the mum is handling the sleepless nights all on her own and the dad isn't really involved, he is getting the sleep that he needs. Everything is going well for him. He doesn't understand the need for it. He feels that, do you really need to do this? Do you really need to?

 

goes through a program like this or do you really need to adopt this new way? My mom did it, your mom did it, why does it have to be any different for you? And that's a very sad, I think, like sleep training is a, for me it's a bit of a feminist issue in that aspect.

 

Sanchita Daswani (29:37)

yeah, when you think about it, that's the reality. And that's what it is. Because even with my clients, I notice, normally the moms are there at meal times. And a lot of times the husbands are like, why do you need to get a meal plan? Just offer whatever, right? But it's so interesting when the dads are involved, they're like, my God, no, we need a plan. So I think it's true what you're saying.

 

And I think now I've seen a change where I've seen more of the dads being involved as well. So it's kind of nice because both are on the same page. So I think times are changing. So, you know, I really, really love this episode because I feel it gives us hope. And I think for a lot of parents listening to this, they will be more open to the idea of it. And so really thank you for that.

 

Rinie (30:06)

Yeah.

 

HOW TO START SLEEP TRAINING 

 

Sanchita Daswani (30:21)

And I want to ask you, how should we start? You know, if you want to do sleep training, what do we do? Like where do we start?

 

Rinie (30:30)

All right, so I think the first thing to do is to equip yourself with knowledge. You need to understand what, not just what sleep training method to use, because that is a simple Google search away, right? There's a lot of preparation that goes into sleep training, like, you know, having the right schedules, having the right nutrition, sleep environment, There's so many factors that need to be taken into consideration. And a very important thing is to equip yourself with the knowledge of it.

 

Now there are courses out there, there are books out there. I think what you and I both did is that we worked with professionals. We worked one -on -one with them because I was very clear that this is uncharted territory for me. I don't know what sleep training is all about. I don't know how to bring about this change. And I need somebody to really hold my hand and guide me through this process because I don't leave things to chance when it comes to my baby. I'm not somebody who's going to experiment and go like, hey.

 

Sanchita Daswani (31:21)

Yeah.

 

Rinie (31:22)

I read this blog about it and let's give it a go and see where it goes. Right? I don't do that.

 

Sanchita Daswani (31:27)

Yeah, and I think for a lot of parents, it's also like there's so much they don't know what to follow. They're like, look, I need someone to just tell me and know my situation and guide me in terms of what's comfortable for me and my baby. So I think that's why you do what you do. I do what I do, because I wish I had that. I wish like for meal times, right? I wish I had someone telling me, you you're Indian parents. Here's how you introduce Raghi and Poha and all of that. So, yeah, I think it's great that there's so many things, but I think the one on one.

 

Rinie (31:52)

Yeah. Yeah.

 

Sanchita Daswani (31:55)

Especially during sleep training because there are those setbacks there are those things you have to overcome with the crying and the Rejection and all of that you need that support from someone saying it's okay. You know, it's gonna be okay. You need that reassurance

 

Rinie (32:05)

Yeah.

 

Absolutely. And that this is what I do as a sleep consultant, I work one -on -one for sleep training, especially. I only do one -on -one work because I know it's a journey that needs to be carefully guided and everything is from reassurance to troubleshooting. I want to be there for the families who are doing this so they get the best outcome out of it. So, you know, I'm just going to drop my link down below for the sleep training program that I offer, something for you to look at. But as we discussed, there are different ways to go about it. There are courses, there are books, there are blogs.

 

Sanchita Daswani (32:19)

Yeah.

 

Rinie (32:37)

But if this is something that you are nervous about and something that you really want to do and you want to get it right, consider working with a professional one on one.

 

Sanchita Daswani (32:47)

Yeah, and you know, so many of my clients have worked with you and they've had such a great experience. So thank you for that. And yeah, I think because food and sleep is something that all of us as parents really are struggling with, especially in the first year a lot to navigate that, you know. So thank you so much. This was such a great episode. I feel lighter. I don't know. I feel like, okay, you know, there's not so much hype around it. And I think everyone will feel like that as well.

 

Rinie (32:58)

Yeah.

 

Yeah, I'm so glad that we got to discuss this today because it's such a hoo -ha topic, right? And I think with this, I just want to also introduce the episode that we're going to do next, okay? So everybody, the next episode is going to be under Sanchita's area of expertise, which is going to be feeding your kids. So Sanchita you want to tell them more about it?

 

Sanchita Daswani (33:24)

So excited, yeah.

 

yeah, I'm so excited for this episode because I think this is something we are dealing with on a daily basis and it is distraction feeding. So when our kids are sitting down for a meal.

 

They need TV, they need books, they need entertainment, they need people singing and dancing. So we're really going to break it down in terms of what this is, how did it happen? And what are the strategies if we want to stop distraction feeding? So stay tuned for that episode and thank you so much for joining today.